@Hawas1983 Okay why must you always overthink things when trying to claim Amity has no empathy for others? Like I feel you're making far more mental gymnastics to claim Amity has no empathy than it would be to admit that yes, Amity is very much capable of empathy.

Like, if you want an example of her empathy outside of Luz, she was very much empathetic with Hunter in Eclipse Lake where she tried to extend an olive branch to him after seeing him have a mental breakdown over failing Belos, even if he disregarded it at the time due to being distracted by her carrying the door key with her. So Amity indeed has empathy contrary to your beliefs. (like come on, Dana and the crew wouldn't be making these arts with Amity being heroic if she never had empathy period).

Do you seriously believe Amity is as bad as Eric Cartman where much like him, she's a terrible being who isn't really friends with her friend group yet hanging around them anyway?

And FYI, the ONLY reason Luz was being more truthful with Hunter in Thanks to Them is because they were in Belos' mind together in Hollow Mind when the big revelations came about. Like, it's the simplest explanation out there. How would she even be able to try and keep the stuff inside Belos' head a secret from Hunter if he was already there to begin with? Trying to lie to Hunter about the stuff in Belos' head that he was there for is like trying to claim that the sky isn't blue.

Besides, Hunter lied to everyone too in Thanks to Them, why aren't you saying he's also being a toxic person like Luz?

And stop linking like a million psychology articles everytime you try to claim Lumity is toxic. I doubt anyone here will read them and Dana and the rest of the Owl House crew are animators/writers, not psychologists.

Okay why must you always overthink things when trying to claim Amity has no empathy for others? Like I feel you're making far more mental gymnastics to claim Amity has no empathy than it would be to admit that yes, Amity is very much capable of empathy.

Why do people always claim your overthinking something right before they offer a bad argument?

These aren't mental gymnastics. This is Amity's own canon behavior in the show. We saw her do this crap. What exactly do you think empathy is? Amity has demonstrated an utter lack of empathy across the entire series. Her very first appearance in the show was her torturing and humiliating a child for no reason whatsoever.

Mean Girl: [Looks away from her book.] Willow! Wow. [Hops off the pot.] You're so unnoticeable I almost rolled into ya. [Chuckles.] [The flower that Willow just healed wilts.]

Willow: Hi, Amity. [Stands up.]

Amity: Uh, shouldn't you get to class early to prep your... [Rattling cuts her off. They turn to Willow's pot as it spills, pouring out a purple substance and an eyeball that blinks and groans.]

Amity: Oh, Willow. You don't have anything to show, do you?

Luz: Witch drama! [Willow pulls up her hood as she blushes.]

Amity: [Sighs.] This is why people call you "Half-a-Witch Willow." [Rattling.]

Amity: Oh, looks like someone wants to say something to you. [Takes the cover off her pot.] Abomination, [Snaps.] rise. [Her abomination rises, becoming more solid until it's humanoid in shape. It bends out of the pot to poke Willow's forehead, leaving behind abomination matter in a star shape.]

Abomination: You're a... star.

Amity: Aw. It's like mine. [Readjusts a star shaped badge that reads "Top Student".] But much smaller and meaningless. As top student, it's my duty to tell you to keep at it. [Puts an arm around Willow.] Even you could get a passing grade someday. Abomination, cower. [It groans as it melts back into the pot. Amity replaces the pot lid and takes hold of the cart.]

Amity: See you in class, superstar.

As far as she knew she and Willow were alone. There was no one there for Amity to impress yet she stopped and took time out of her day to attack Willow. And she took pleasure in doing it so it was an act of pure sadism. This was the latest act in a campaign against Willow that lasted 9 years and was still continuing. Why did she do it? Is this how you would have treated Willow? If so, why? If not, why is it OK with you for Amity to treat Willow that way?

After this inauspicious introduction Amity's interpersonal skills never improved. She never acknowledged her treatment of Willow. She, in fact, doubled down on it by destroying Willow's conscious mind, effectively killing her, to save herself some personal embarrassment. She went to the end of the series never having dealt honestly and sincerely with Willow over this history. She never apologized. She never took responsibility. She never made up for it. She never once showed an ounce of empathy towards Willow. She developed a crush on Luz and from that point on no one else mattered to Amity but Luz.

Like, if you want an example of her empathy outside of Luz, she was very much empathetic with Hunter in Eclipse Lake where she tried to extend an olive branch to him after seeing him have a mental breakdown over failing Belos, even if he disregarded it at the time due to being distracted by her carrying the door key with her. So Amity indeed has empathy contrary to your beliefs. (like come on, Dana and the crew wouldn't be making these arts with Amity being heroic if she never had empathy period).

By her own admission everything Amity did in Eclipse Lake (and subsequent to it) was to prove that she was Luz' "awesome girlfriend". Her actions were not the result of empathy toward Hunter or anyone else. They were the result of Amity selfishly building up her own ego by attempting to prove just how awesome she can be as a girlfriend. Were it not for her crush on Luz, Amity wouldn't have even been there. After all, would she have done what she did in Eclipse Lake for anyone else? Eda? Gus? Willow? Hunter didn't matter to Amity. We know that because she had virtually nothing to do with him after Eclipse Lake. The only person that mattered to Amity was Luz.

Amity serves Lumity. That's all she ever did post-Grom to include what she did at Eclipse Lake.

Do you seriously believe Amity is as bad as Eric Cartman where much like him, she's a terrible being who isn't really friends with her friend group yet hanging around them anyway?

No. Amity's worse. Cartman's a jerk but he's never been responsible for willfully causing someone grievous bodily harm to the point of effectively killing them (that I'm aware of anyway). Amity bullied Willow for 9 years and then destroyed her mind. Afterwards she never acknowledged any wrongdoing and had virtually nothing to do with Willow since Understanding Willow. Cartman is an angel compared to this level of abysmal behavior.

And FYI, the ONLY reason Luz was being more truthful with Hunter in Thanks to Them is because they were in Belos' mind together in Hollow Mind when the big revelations came about. Like, it's the simplest explanation out there. How would she even be able to try and keep the stuff inside Belos' head a secret from Hunter if he was already there to begin with? Trying to lie to Hunter about the stuff in Belos' head that he was there for is like trying to claim that the sky isn't blue.

Luz is lying to Amity. She is emotionally distancing herself from Amity. She was ready to physically abandon Amity at the portal. This goes beyond the events in Hollow Mind. Why didn't she confide in Amity as well as Hunter after Hollow Mind? Why did Luz lie to Amity in Reaching Out which took place before Hollow Mind? Why did Luz feel it acceptable to lie to Amity at all even after Amity told her she knew Luz was lying and asked her to stop? Why didn't Luz stop?

Besides, Hunter lied to everyone too in Thanks to Them, why aren't you saying he's also being a toxic person like Luz?

Hunter isn't claiming to be anyone's intimate partner. Luz is. That's the difference.

And stop linking like a million psychology articles everytime you try to claim Lumity is toxic. I doubt anyone here will read them and Dana and the rest of the Owl House crew are animators/writers, not psychologists.

I will link to whatever I feel effectively supports my position. That's what you do in a debate. You support your position with facts. If you can't handle those links just ignore them. You're not the only one who reads these threads. Others might appreciate the factual support. Besides, I'm writing just as much for the benefit of people who may be reading this wiki decades and perhaps even centuries from now as well as those reading it today. So long as there exists electricity and computers this wiki is liable to still be around in some form.

As for Dana and her crew not being psychologists, that's obvious. She wrote a toxic relationship without knowing she was writing a toxic relationship.

Do you really need a degree in psychology to understand that you don't lie to an intimate partner? Do you have to be a psychologist to know that once you've betrayed someone's trust it is almost impossible to win that trust back? Even if you do it's never the same as it was before. Do you think Dana and her crew understand that making yourself emotionally unavailable to your partner effectively ends your relationship? They must because that's what they wrote between Eda and Raine. It's quite possible that Dana created Eda and Raine as an adult analogue to Lumity as a point of comparison.

@Hawas1983 An utter lack of empathy for the entire series? I’m sorry but that is entirely incorrect.

Amity has shown multiple times just how empathetic she has become since meeting Luz.

1. She was more mad at Luz for endangering her siblings than steeling her wand.

2. When Flapjack died she was literally in tears over his death

3. She was in tears and refused to leave her father when it seemed he would be giving his life so that she and the others could escape the Abamatons, Willow had to pull her away because she refused to leave him

4. She admitted how weak she was for what she did to Willow and contrary to your claims, confessed she wanted to remain her friend and didn’t want to lose what she just got back

5. She was in tears of joy upon being reunited with her siblings

6. She was horrified when King and Eda fell down that hole at Eclipse Lake and she offered Hunter a chance at redemption even when she had the Titan Blood for Luz, so her offer towards him had nothing to do with her, she just genuine empathized with him and wanted to help him

7. She loves little kids and has shown to be patient and understanding towards them

1. She was the first of the Hexsquad after Luz to show kindness towards the Collector, if she was devoid of empathy would she really be kind and forgiving towards him after everything he did to her?

2. She risked her life to save Vee when Belos nearly killed her

I can go on. Your statement about her never showing any empathy is utterly unfounded. What she did to Willow was horrible and wrong, that cannot be denied. But she has redeemed herself and regardless of what you have said, Willow has forgiven her and they have rekindled their friendship. Just go back and see them following Labyrinth Runners and you will see that they enjoy each others company and in S3E2 they even did a dance of joy together when they made it to the Collector’s base, even though their was no survival situation that needed them to cooperate. Willow has also shown herself to be comforting to Amity and has helped her.

Despite what Amity did, that doesn’t cancel out her chance at redemption. You keep condemning her for it but you don’t acknowledge all the good she has done since Luz helped her develop.

Also, your use of curse words is inappropriate considering this is a kids show wiki in which younger users may visit. I am afraid I may have to report you… again.

@Hawas1983 Okay now you're playing with fire to claim Amity is somehow a worse person than Eric Cartman? Like I'm pretty sure Amity never made a kid eat their own parents that were grounded into chili, gave someone HIV, try to exterminate Jews, fake Tourrette's syndrome, fake her way into special Olympics, and going on a killing spree with Cthulhu like Cartman did. And that's not even getting into smaller momenets that show Cartman's driven other kids to suicide before and got Supernanny institutionalized.

" Why didn't she confide in Amity as well as Hunter after Hollow Mind? "

Again, Amity wasn't there inside Belos' head when the big reveals were made like Hunter was, that's why Luz didn't confide in her. And keep in mind that Luz didn't even meet up with Amity after that until Clouds on the Horizon and King's Tide where they were too busy with having to stop the Day of Unity to really have that conversation. And come on if you were in Luz's shoes, would you really not hesitate to tell someone that "Hey, I gave your tyrannical dictator of a rule the means of finding the thing that will help him destroy your world"? It's not easy to say tell people that you helped the villain gain the means destroy their world.

And here's where Amity shows her empathy to Hunter:

"Amity: You know, you were right. We do have a lot in common. I grew up thinking everything was an opportunity to justify existing, but there are people out there who won't make you feel worthless. You just have to let yourself meet them."

She's clearly making the effort to empathize with and be friendly with Hunter in that moment. And Luz certainly isn't there to see it and I doubt Luz influenced that (in the sense of Amity only doing because she likes Luz) given she didn't exactly leave on good terms with Hunter the last time she saw him.

Heck, would Amity have cried at Hunter nearly dying if she lacked empathy:

@RadicalPatMan

Okay now you're playing with fire to claim Amity is somehow a worse person than Eric Cartman? Like I'm pretty sure Amity never made a kid eat their own parents that were grounded into chili, gave someone HIV, try to exterminate Jews, fake Tourrette's syndrome, fake her way into special Olympics, and going on a killing spree with Cthulhu like Cartman did. And that's not even getting into smaller momenets that show Cartman's driven other kids to suicide before and got Supernanny institutionalized.

It's not playing with fire at all. It's a simple matter of understanding genre.

South Park is a broad satire intended for adult consumption. Its characters and situations are exaggerated to the point of absurdity for the purpose of social commentary. Its depictions of violence are intended to be taken as seriously as The Three Stooges or a Looney Tunes cartoon.

The Owl House is a coming-of-age fantasy adventure tale intended for the consumption of children 6 to 11 years old. Its depictions of violence are intended to reinforce lessons children need to learn as they grow into teens and later adulthood. Those depictions raise the stakes of the story and so need to be taken as serious threats to the health, well-being and lives of the characters.

Again, Amity wasn't there inside Belos' head when the big reveals were made like Hunter was, that's why Luz didn't confide in her. And keep in mind that Luz didn't even meet up with Amity after that until Clouds on the Horizon and King's Tide where they were too busy with having to stop the Day of Unity to really have that conversation.

That's not a reason for Luz to keep her experience from Amity. Luz is supposed to be Amity's intimate partner (according to the fandom anyway) and so would be expected to confide in Amity about the experience given it revealed information about a threat they were both facing. Luz had plenty of time on earth to tell Amity of the events of Hollow Mind. It was certainly information Amity would need given what they were all facing in the prospect of returning to the Demon Realm. Yet not only did Luz withhold that information from Amity, she intended to let her return to the Demon Realm without following. Luz didn't know what would be waiting for Amity on the other side of the portal yet she was willing to let Amity walk into a potentially lethal situation alone and deprived of information that might give her a better chance of survival.

And come on if you were in Luz's shoes, would you really not hesitate to tell someone that "Hey, I gave your tyrannical dictator of a rule the means of finding the thing that will help him destroy your world"? It's not easy to say tell people that you helped the villain gain the means destroy their world.

Which is why Luz is a child completely unprepared for the responsibilities of an adult relationship. If I were Luz and I genuinely cared about Amity as something more than a crush I wouldn't hesitate at all to tell her what I knew if I thought it could help save her life. Putting Amity's life at risk simply to protect my own ego is something Amity would do as she has already demonstrated. Remember that Luz originally had no intention of following Amity though the portal and held that intention for months. Once Amity passed through the portal and the portal closed Amity would no longer be Luz' concern. What would she have to lose by giving Amity important information about Belos? She had already decided to give Amity up.

"Amity: You know, you were right. We do have a lot in common. I grew up thinking everything was an opportunity to justify existing, but there are people out there who won't make you feel worthless. You just have to let yourself meet them."

She's clearly making the effort to empathize with and be friendly with Hunter in that moment. And Luz certainly isn't there to see it and I doubt Luz influenced that (in the sense of Amity only doing because she likes Luz) given she didn't exactly leave on good terms with Hunter the last time she saw him.

No, she's not. This quote is from Eclipse Lake and that episode made it quite clear what Amity's goal was in the episode.

Amity: I know. But I was taught to see every situation as an opportunity. And today, I'll show Luz that I am an awesome girlfriend.

Amity: No, Luz wouldn't make that kind of threat. I'm an awesome girlfriend.

Luz: Amity! [Happily hugs her.] I'm so glad my awesome girlfriend is okay.

To Amity Hunter is only a means to an end. After Amity received her validation she barely had anything to do with Hunter for the rest of the series.

Heck, would Amity have cried at Hunter nearly dying if she lacked empathy:

When did Amity cry in that scene? I didn't see any tears from her. When Hunter was revived Amity immediately turned her attention to Luz and paid no further attention to Hunter.

@Hawas1983 Lmao they literally put a picture of her in tears at hunter almost dying.

@Hawas1983 Im no sorry but there are a few errors in your response regarding these issues.

you need to take a closer look. Look at her eyes and you will see tears forming.

Also, Luz did not plan on leaving Amity for months, she did so right before Halloween when everyone said they wanted to go on the Haunted Hayride. She wasn’t conspiring to get rid of Amity and the others the moment she got back to the Human Realm

Also, how is telling her about how she helped crucial information to defeating Belos? It is good that they knew but how would that be of use on the upcoming battle. That doesn’t make much sense since that info doesn’t really put either Belos or the Collector at a disadvantage.

Also Luz, didn’t keep the truth out of ego. She did so out of self-loathing. After learning the truth, Luz blamed herself for Belos’s atrocities even though it wasn’t her fault. She was hating herself and didn’t tell her friends because she couldn’t think they would forgive her when she couldn’t forgive herself. She loves her friends and didn’t want to loose many of the only ones she had made in her entire life.

Plus, most of the events that Luz is shown smiling during Thanks to Them, happen when Amity is around, because her presence is that comforting to Luz. She was going to stay behind not because she didn’t genuinely care for her, but because she believed she would only put her and the others in more danger if she stayed around them. That is misguided and tragic, but hardly selfish, rather it’s selfless.

If she did, one can only imagine how harmful that would be for her mentally. She would have lost her beloved girlfriend and the friends, would be cut off from the only friends she ever made in her entire life, be cut off from the place she truly considers home, and would never find out if her brother and mother survived. I think it’s obvious, and realistic as you would prefer, that would extremely damaging to Luz’s mental health, especially when it was damaged at the time with her unnecessary sense of guilt and worrying over King, Eda, and everyone else in the Demon Realm.

Also, yes Amity went to Eclipse Lake for Luz, but that doesn’t mean she had to empathize with Hunter solely because of that. She already got what she needed for Luz, so there was no reason for her to be nice to him. If she was really solely obsessed with Luz as you seem to claim, than she would have just left immediately after realizing the key had blood in it to show off to Luz what an awesome girlfriend she was. Instead she took the time and risked losing the Blood, which she kind of did, just to help an enemy, an enemy, who was in such a depressive and sympathetic state. That is empathy that had nothing to do with Luz, that was her own validation because she felt like she had been in Hunter’s shoes.

@Cosmikid correct @Hawas1983 you really need to take a closer look

I must also note that even if Luz didn't go back to the Demon Realm, she was gonna give Amity and the others a heads up about it first before Camila interrupted her (due to feeling guilty about pushing her in that direction).

See here:

"Luz: I was scared. I thought you'd all hate me for it. Which is why I've made a decision. I think it'd be in everyone's best interest if I-

Camila: Took your mama to the Demon Realm!"

Pretty clear that Luz wasn't intending to just let the gang go through the portal before eventually telling them. Heck for all we know, Luz would've at least gone with the group to help before leaving the Demon Realm for good.

That's certainly what she was thinking in For the Future until Camila finally had a full talk with her and gave Luz the encouragement not to leave the Demon Realm after the Collector was defeated which led to her palisman hatching.

@Hawas1983 Since you place so much stock on Luz lying to Amity, what did you think of how Adventure Time handled Finn lying to Flame Princess? Or Avatar showing Aang lying to Katara?